15/05/2023
Sara Munari talking:
Sara Munari is an Italian photographer from Milan. Sara teaches History of Photography and Visual Communication at the Italian Institute of Photography of Language and Construction. In 2019, she opened Musa Fotografia, an art centre dedicated to photography, offering art courses, presentations, exhibitions and library.
Interview by Tatyana Valova, Belgrade Photo Month curator.
Apart from being a photographer, you also teach the history of photography. How do you apply that knowledge to your personal artistic practice? What inspires you most from the history of photography?
The study of the history of photography has enabled me to understand which themes were already covered, and what languages and methods subsequently used, so I always try to move in a direction different from previous authors of a story. Thanks to the authors who contributed to the history of photography, I have been able to get inspired and decide which path to take.
You are the founder of Musa National Award for female photographers. Why did you decide to focus specifically on women photographers? Do you think that women have been somewhat undervalued throughout the history of photography, or maybe even nowadays?
“Il Premio Musa” for women in photography is primarily dedicated to female Italian photographers. Personally, I don’t think that there are particular differences between men and women in the world of photography; yet, there are still many differences between how women and men are treated in general, even at the level of work. It was exactly for that reason that I decided to give this award to female photographers only. I was even accused of sexism i.e. some men complained about not being given an equal opportunity to present their work. From my point of view, however, this is a nice gesture towards women who are often not treated as their male counterparts.
You have also founded a big photography community – school, library, portfolio reviews, blog. Why is it important for you to surround yourself with like-minded people?
My goal has always been to disseminate photography in its various forms – both from a theoretical, as well as a practical point of view, and for that reason I created Musa fotografia, a space dedicated to sharing photography in all its different applications.
In your photographic practice you follow two rather opposite approaches. One is a documentary photography from your travels, whilst the other is made of personal stories about issues you are concerned about, for instance, your projects Don’t Let My Mother Know and Controcanto. How do you manage to combine them?
I believe that photography is simply the means of communicating things we encounter. Things that we try to understand and want to articulate accordingly through the language chosen for that purpose. The most important thing is to always understand one's limits. Not all languages can be used by all photographers, not all languages work well with all projects … once you establish what it is that you are able to do, you simply exploit it to better explain what you are facing. Chosen themes can differ, as you may be intrigued or scared by something, or you may have studied something in depth. The method itself is not important, what matters is to ultimately reach a spectator. Knowing how to coordinate the language and the message is the most important thing. I am not a great believer in aesthetics that has proliferated in the past few years, and rather remain attached to the need for a strong message.
You made reportages in countries which – I may say – are not terribly popular amongst typical tourists, i.e. countries such as India, Mongolia, Bangladesh, Azerbaijan, Baltic countries. Why did you choose these countries for your travels? Is there something special about these places that made you interested in them? How does a place itself change the way you photograph it?
I strongly believe in equality of all human beings. What drove me to visit these countries was the curiosity about their way of life, their cuisine, their social habits. Regardless of where I travel, I try to respect local customs, to adapt and I generally feel like a curious observer who is amazed by everything. I use my trips to learn about the world, trying to understand the beauty of differences and wonderfulness that unites all human beings.
You work not only with photography. For instance, for your project Don’t Let My Mother Know, you used video, imaginary collages and letters. You said once that in your practice you are trying to have fun with photography, so this project somehow reminds me of the way children tend to play. How do you manage to talk about serious issues whilst having fun? Is this your particular way to personally reflect on difficulties?
I think the best way to talk about tragic things that happen to us is through irony. Irony helped me learn how to “digest” some horrendous facts that did not only concern my family, but human beings in general. My father taught me that. My work is dedicated to him and it concerned him, and I could only be ironic and happy to share my tragedy in such a way not to burden viewers. The sadness you experience does not change, but the weight you carry on your shoulders is lightened by the opportunity to laugh. Irony must not be confused with superficiality, as they are two completely different things. Tragic things can be told lightly without being seen as superficial.
You published several books on photography. One of them is about street photography. What do you find so interesting about this photo genre that you dedicated the entire book to it?
I always liked street photography because I find it the most difficult genre ever. Being able to do street photography is like playing a game of poker with what's happening in the street. You always hope to see something exceptional that would capture your attention and this is very complicated. Merely taking photographs in the street does not mean doing street photography.
In description of your book you say that street photography has changed. How, in your opinion, has it changed?
Until the advent of the internet and digital, I saw the street photography as a story of any single person, trying to capture their characteristics and specific qualities, or more simply, the flow of life in the street. Often, since it captured specific characteristics of a certain society, this genre was used by photographers who lived in a place they would narrate about through photography. A rationale behind it is that those peculiarities and certain exceptions related to that particular society were recognizable only by those who knew that society well. Of course, it wasn't always like this, but often it was.
Today things have changed. We can get an idea about other cities by looking at the myriad of images and videos, getting to know places, customs and habits of people living there, and their specific qualities. We can talk about New York even if we are not from there, because we know it well. Nowadays it is far more simple to move around and talk about the world.
It's definitely a genre accessible to everyone, because you do not need a special equipment; however, it's really very difficult to produce. There are hundreds of photographers standing in the street, but only few produce street photography.
Street photography is the representation of real life (without photographer’s intervention), infused with awareness of the place, its quirks, its habits and contemporary visual aesthetics. Street photographers look for scenes that elicit immediate emotional response through humour or ambiguous, strange or surreal events.
Street photographers can tell a world that is not real, or is real. Unlike reportage (journalism, news, travel photography), a street photographer does not have any obligation to document specific topics that are related to a specific narrative. It can be done, or not. Those who shoot in the street make selection of elements in terms of light, aesthetics and composition that serve to tell a story that can also be done in a single shot. You see something, you snap it and tell a little story. Every moment is crucial; a certain exception visible only because it was captured by a photographer. The process that takes places by the speed of lightning, therefore, quite complicated and not at all reproducible.
Aside from your books, you also have an interesting blog where you write about various photographers, photo exhibitions and events. Why, in your opinion, photographers need to see and study works produced by others?
Studying the work of other photographers allows you to better understand the methods and approaches they used, which can serve as an inspiration, but also help you not to repeat the same things. That’s why, in my opinion, it is essential to study them. Studying the work of others is essential for anyone getting acquainted with the medium of photography. Though photography is often thought to be the fruit of a genius, in reality it is the result of dedication and consistent, in-depth study.
So, being a good photographer is not only about personal talent, but it also necessitates learning and/or training?
Being a photographer, from the technical point of view, is certainly a matter of training. Producing projects implies a particular type of culture, certain capacity for in-depth study and dedication to work. Sensitivity, on the other hand, cannot be taught. The technique itself, yes!
I assume that in your library there are many books on photography. Which books are a must-read for professional photographers and photography lovers?
“Understanding a Photograpy” by John Berger
“Ways of Seeing” by John Berger
“La furia delle immagini. Note sulla postfotografia” by Joan Fontcuberta
“Il bacio di giuda” by Joan Fontcuberta
“Gli amori difficili” by Italo Calvino
“Dopo la fotografia” by Fred Ritchin
“L’infinito istante. Saggio sulla fotografia” by Geoff Dyer
“La fotografia cambia tutto” by Heiferman Marvin
What do you think about Serbian photography? How do you feel about Serbia being present in the world photography scene?
I do not differentiate between Serbian photography and photography from any other country in the world. The strength of the work is in the author, in themes they decide to tell and in the language they decide to use. For me, photography belongs to the world, and not to any particular state. Telling stories is a human necessity, not the necessity of a national of a certain country, so I don't see why Serbian photography should not carve out a slice from a broad panorama of the world photography.
With digital art being ever more popular and with increasing popularity of social networks, photography is also constantly changing. How do you see photography in future?
The history of photography is constantly evolving and digital photography represents only one stage of this change. As Foncuberta said, the quantity of images in circulation is such that it seems like the presence of authors or photographers who tell stories is no longer needed. I'm not sure about the ways we will use to tell stories in the future, as it is all changing very fast. But as I said before, all human beings need to tell stories and we will always be doing that. We will, accordingly, be finding new ways to do it.
The point is not how many images are produced every day or how they are produced, but rather how are they concatenated to tell a story about an event that concerns all humans. It will probably reduce the number of people capable of doing this with awareness for photographic medium as a means of communication as we know it. The modalities will certainly change, but the very concept and themes have been the same since the very birth of photography and will remain same in the future.
What do you think about collecting photography as art? Have you ever sold your work? Do you collect art, photography in particular?
Yes, both happened to me, i.e. to sell my work and also to buy or exchange them with other authors. I find the act of preserving something that lasts over time very interesting. Also in this area things are destined to change, and the roles of both collectors and gallery owners are destined to undergo many changes.
Let’s say that your work could be exhibited in any museum in the world. Which museum would it be?
For many authors, entering a museum collection has always been the key point of arrival. On the other hand, the figure of a photographer exists if there are those who recognize it. Having your work recognized and exhibited in a museum is a great point of arrival. I would like it to be in a museum that is not too big, but the one visited by passionate individuals who want to be involved and have enough patience and sensitivity to understand my stories. Those are typically small museums that are passionate about your work and want to help you grow.
What do you enjoy most about being a photographer?
What amuses me tremendously is the feeling that I haven't really worked in the past twenty years, but rather enjoyed doing things that I was most passionate about.
Tell us something about your new project. What are your plans for the future? Any new projects, ideas?
Applying the same logic that I used whilst working on "Don't let my mother know", I have just finished a project on Leonardo Da Vinci (proving that he invented photography (false!)) and another one on European volcanoes that I would like to start exhibiting.
An important part of the Belgrade Photo Month is the contest for young photographers. What advice would you give to these young people who are just starting their careers as photographers?
The advice I would give to young people is to study a lot, also including new languages and new methodologies, to never give up hard work and not get discouraged if their work is not immediately recognized. If they believe in their work, they must be patient and persevere. We live in an era in which we are used to immediate gratification, yet the same logic cannot be applied to photography. Be patient, study and work hard!
Blitz-5:
1. Your favourite photographer(s): Joan Fontcuberta, Sarah Moon, Miroslav Tichý, Martin Munkacsi
2. Best photography exhibition you’ve ever visited: Richard Avedon Palazzo Reale a Milano
3. Which profession would you choose, if you weren’t a photographer? Sometimes I think that I could not have done anything else but be a photographer. Ever more often I think that I would have been passionate about any other work that is related to art I like, i.e., sculpture and painting, so I suppose that I would still stay in the world of art.
If I could choose different area of studies, I would do something related to physics or mathematics.
4. If you could photograph anything in the world, what would it be? My father and mother as children.
5. Place in Belgrade that you liked the most: I had already visited Belgrade on two occasions and had always found it a very lively city. It is very rich in ideas from a cultural point of view, and this time as well I had the same impression. I really love the city centre and walking around its many side streets. A beautiful city!
Sara Munari
Istituto Italiano di Cultura in Belgrado
Grenze - Arsenali Fotografici
